The limits to my philosophy on cars

[mattbell]

I'm generally a fan of not spending a lot of money on cars, as the money most people spend on them seems like it would be better spent elsewhere.  I paid $3,600 for my car, whereas most people in my income range at the time probably spent $20,000-$50,000.  To me, there are a hell of a lot of exciting things you can do with the difference between those two amounts of money.  In a place like San Francisco, cars are likely to get banged up fairly fast anyway, so it's worth getting something that's already a bit rough around the edges.

However, I'm thinking that it might be time to finally get a newer car.  What's pushing me over the edge?

Rainwater leaks.

The last set of storms dumped a pile of water into my car, and over a few days the water has gradually made it into various parts of the car, especially the footwell under the passenger seat.  I found I was able to get rid of the water by parking diagonally on a slope so that I could simply scoop the pooled water out with a cup.  Applying baking soda to the floor removed the lingering smell.  (There's a sidebar here about how a very simple product works better than a lot of more modern, more expensive, annoyingly scented deodorizers)

I want to prevent it from happening again.  

The origins of the leak are not obvious.  There's a slight leak from the sunroof, but that doesn't explain the majority of the water on the floor.  
It would be cool to find some sort of flow diagram that would document how water is supposed to move around the car.  I got a few ideas of where to look from the internet, but there are a lot of possibilities.  The fact that the leak is slow (1 day delay) and inconsistent makes things even harder.  I could do something clever like coloring water with different coors of food coloring, pouring different colors onto different candidate leak areas, and then looking to see what color of water ends up on the floor.

However, unless there's a relatively easy solution, I think I've reached the point where the time I'm investing in this no longer makes sense.  The point of buying a cheap, reliable car was to save money for more important things, but if I'm spending a lot of time fixing it, it's no longer a net win.  Any ideas?
 

Comments

[veleda.livejournal.com]

my car is close to dying as well..

I have been thinking of a used honda fit.

[mixophrygian.livejournal.com]

Hey Matt, this is Eleanor. We met at Canter's a few days ago. I'm glad I found your blog! It reminds me a lot of this other blog I like to read- http://www.evilmadscientist.com/ If you don't already read that one, you should check it out.

Also, you should sell your awesome laser wood carvings as expensive table tops!

[nasu-dengaku.livejournal.com]

It was good to meet you too!

[arethiel.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you remember my old car with its terrible water issues. It is one of those problems that is hard to fix properly. I'm guessing, though, that water is pooling inside the frame before slowly leaking out into the passenger well. This is probably pretty bad for the frame...

One possibility is that the sealant on the windows has gone bad and they no longer keep the water out.

At least in my case, the car was still under warrantee, but once I discovered it was going to be a recurring issue (due to that particular vehicle's design), it didn't make sense to keep the car as out-of-warrantee replacement would have cost a pretty penny.

The one advantage of upgrading means you'll get a reliable car that usually doesn't need as much fixing, but remember that doesn't necessarily mean $20k to $30k. You can get a good vehicle (even some new ones) for around $10k to $14k. Sure it is more than you paid for your current one, but probably less likely to have problems. Also, those little "luxuries" like sunroof tend to be more a source of leak than advantages.

anyway, just some thoughts.

[nasu-dengaku.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I didn't care about the sunroof but the best car I found had one, so I took it.

[catithat.livejournal.com]

I can see how this could be a huge last straw. I consider "waterproof" pretty necessary for a car :)

Happy Hunting! (whether it's leak-hunting or new-car-hunting)

[easwaran.livejournal.com]

I guess in my case I decided that a new car would be much less hassle than a used car, and I don't really have anything else I would plan on doing with the money (though I suppose I could have gotten a fancier apartment and some more furniture). However, it is already getting scratched up, partly because of the extreme narrowness of the parking space I've been given (I now refuse to use the space unless there's someone else with me to direct the car in and out, given my inexperience maneuvering a vehicle).

Anyway, I've been enjoying my Prius, and especially trying to figure out how different driving patterns affect the fuel economy.

[nasu-dengaku.livejournal.com]

I don't really have anything else I would plan on doing with the money

Investing it is always... ok... usually a good option. :-)

[ekesobriquet.livejournal.com]

I think the key thing you're looking at here is the thing I discovered through buying a lot of computer stuff. The premium, high-end, cutting-edge stuff has a cost premium that has no real payoff. However, at the low end you have to determine the minimum requirements to get a product that works sufficiently well.

[plymouth.livejournal.com]

My take on this is that I bought a new car to avoid inheriting someone else's problems. I now know everything that has been done to that car in its lifetime. I paid ~28K and I plan to keep it for 15-20 years. In that timespan I expect you would own 3-4 $3600 cars, so the difference in cost is more like 17K (not counting maintenance). Yes, over the lifetime of my car I will almost certainly pay more than you did, but I will get a lot of benefit for that. My car is also bigger and somewhat higher end and I enjoy it for being a fine piece of German engineering, not just for getting me around.

My first car was 7yrs old with 123K on the odometer and we paid $1200 for it (and immediately had $800 worth of work done - it was sold as-is). I kept it for another 7 years (long past when I had a job where I could clearly have afforded a new car) and another 140K miles. I also "bought the car" every year in repairs pretty much (i.e. spent another ~$1200) and considered that well worth it.

Given your philosophy I would not recommend you buy a new car. But I might recommend you look for a good 2-3 year used car for something in the range of 10K. I expect you can find a 10K car that will last you 3x as long as a $3600 car and win monetarily. Most of a car's book value is lost in the first year or two of driving and I'm pretty sure I read a study indicating that a 3yr old car is at the sweet spot on the curve of expected remaining lifetime vs cost.

Of course I personally would worry a little about what kind of maintenance record a 2-3 year old car had, given that it is most likely the first owner was someone who thought of cars as "disposable" and wasn't maintaining it for the long term. But people get rid of cars for a lot of reasons - maybe their new husband hated it, maybe they had kids and needed to upgrade to something bigger, maybe they moved and needed 4WD and it didn't have it. So you get your 3yr old car thoroughly checked out by a mechanic before buying it and make sure you're getting a good one.

[nasu-dengaku.livejournal.com]

That's about the age/price-point I'm thinking... >3 years old and <$10000.

I plan on buying a car that has a complete maintenance record -- that's usually a sign of good care.

Also, you probably know this already, but you're unusual for holding on to a car for 15-20 years. Your approach is a good money-saving strategy too.

I can only speak my experience...

[martak.livejournal.com]

In my previous relationship, we went through 2 used cars, both of which were essentially "free" cars given to us by her family. Both cars were at least 10 years old, and showing their age. At some point, the cost to maintain them became much greater than the cost of getting a new car.

In 2001, I was commuting 50 miles each way between Oakland and Cupertino. The option I looked at was the (brand new) Toyota Prius. With features and tax, it ended up being about $24,000, I think. I did everything they tell you "not" to do:

• I bought the car brand new.
  
• I bought the extended warranty.
  
• I got all the features that were available (there weren't many options back then anyway).
  
• While required by the warranty, I did all the maintenance through the dealer.
  

Lots of people were "down" on the Prius. I listened to I don't know how many people tell me that they aren't worth the additional costs, etc., and savings in gas.

Looking back, it was the smartest decision I ever made. When it needed a new computer (a $3,000 part), it was covered entirely under the extended warranty. There were several other high ticket items that happened over the course of its life. Today, the car has well over 100,000 miles on it. It's been to New York and back. Changes in gasoline prices were effectively neutralized, even during the Bush Iraq war years. It's still one of the top 10 cars, still one of the cars with the highest resale value, and still sold on a made-to-order basis.

I was hoping my next car would be a hydrogen fuel cell car. Sadly, that was another "promise" that Bush made in election 2000. Where is that infrastructure at?

If I had it to do again, yes I would borrow / finance, and yes I would get another Toyota Prius.

Re: I can only speak my experience...

[nasu-dengaku.livejournal.com]

I think given that you were buying a car that was based on a new and untested technology, you totally did the right thing.

[peristaltor.livejournal.com]

Have you considered drilling a drain hole? (Do make sure there's nothing important to puncture first!)

Water will always win. The key is to deal with it, not to prevent it's flow.

[nasu-dengaku.livejournal.com]

According to my mechanic, that's the Official Method of dealing with lingering water in a car's footwell. (You're supposed to plug the hole with silicone when you're done)

[(Anonymous)]

A windshield leak can travel, to the point where there is water under the rear-seat footwell. At least it did in my car.

Not the right choice for everyone, but I had a new windshield installed for ~$250 and drove another 100,000 miles.

There are so many ways to handle the car thing, aren't there.

[serolynne.livejournal.com]

There's a great middle ground in buying cars that are just a couple years old, and often still under warranty. You save on the initial 'drive it off the lot depreciation', get a modern car that is well maintained and still has many years/miles of life left before you start having problems.

Research reliable models in the class of car you want - and you can get a great vehicle for far less than new, but it also not needing lots of repair cost right off the bat. And, you can trade in every couple years without taking too much of a hit, should you want to keep the 'newer used' car benefits.

If you guys have CarMax around, highly recommend them as a used car seller.